Tara-Leigh Cobble和Mark Turman博士讨论了Cobble的见证，圣经识字的重要性，在社区中阅读圣经，以及他们对以色列的深爱。

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Tara-Leigh Cobble首先分享了她的见证，她是如何爱上圣经的，以及《圣经重述》是如何成为最受欢迎的播客之一的(2:37)。然后她分享了为什么在社区里读圣经是如此重要，以及D-Groups是如何在她的客厅里开始的(18:27)。图尔曼博士和她分享了他们在以色列的经历，他们最喜欢的回忆，地方和餐馆，以及如何去圣地朝圣可以为圣经故事带来新的曙光(29:29)。

伟德国际手机移动版资源和进一步阅读:

• d组，以门徒为基础的圣经学习
• 圣经重述网站
• 以色列:美丽、光明和奢华，Tara-Leigh鹅卵石
• 圣经重述Tara-Leigh Cobble

关于主持人

马克·图尔曼是丹尼森论坛的执行董事。他在贝勒大学(Baylor)获得了Truett的硕士学位，此前曾担任Crosspoint Church的首席牧师。

关于客人

塔拉-利·科布尔对圣经识字的热情使她创建并发展了一个名为D-Group(门徒小组)的国际圣经研究网络。每周，超过250个男女d -小组在世界各地的家庭和教堂聚会学习圣经。她还撰写并主持了一个名为“上帝之枪”的每日广播节目，以及一个名为“圣经重述”的每日播客，旨在帮助听众在一年内阅读和理解圣经。

在短短一年多的时间里，播客已经被下载了近2000万次，全球超过2万间教会加入了他们的阅读计划，以更好地认识和爱神。

成绩单

由Otter.ai转录

马克·斯莱特00:10

欢迎来到丹尼森论坛播客。我是马克·特曼博士。主持人，感谢您参加我们关于文化和信仰的对话。我们很高兴你和我们在一起。今天我们的特别嘉宾是塔拉·李·卡布尔，很多人都知道她，因为她创造了《圣经重述》我们一会儿会和她讨论这个。但塔拉·李说，她对圣经读写的热情促使她在几年前创建了D小组，这是门徒小组的缩写，现在已经成为一个有300人的国际网络，加上每周在家里、教堂和网上聚会的圣经学习。她也是每日电台节目《上帝》的主持人，同时也是播客《圣经重述》的主持人，《圣经重述》引导听众按时间顺序阅读一年多的圣经，你们可能知道或者很多人知道《圣经重述》现在已经达到了2亿的下载量，并且在苹果播客中排名第二，在总排行榜上名列前茅。我们很多信徒都知道这一点。她也是随书《圣经概述》和《圣经研究》的作者。他在快乐的地方，目前正在发布一个名为“以色列，美丽，光明和奢华”的新项目，这是她在过去几年带领团队去以色列的事工中发展起来的。 We’re going to talk with her about that. So we look forward to this conversation of having Tara Lee, as a part of our conversation today. All right, Tara Lee, welcome to the podcast. How are you today, I’m

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石01:52

很高兴和你们在一起。谢谢你邀请我。

马克·斯莱特01:55

我们很感激你抽出时间来陪我们。我们希望上帝会以伟大的方式使用我们的对话。在我们开始的时候，我只是想，正如我刚才和你们分享的，我去年做了圣经回顾阅读计划，今年又重新开始，有了一个阅读计划。但我很想让我们的观众听到一点你自己的精神之旅和人生之旅，无论你想在其中包括什么。但是简单介绍一下背景，你知道，嘿，你现在是一个每年都读圣经的人，并帮助我们中的许多人也这样做。但这背后的故事是什么呢?你与基督的属灵之旅是从哪里开始的，还有一些其他的细节?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石02:37

我在一个基督教家庭长大。所以我们成了一个笑话，你可能听别人说过，我出生前在教堂里呆了九个月，之类的，一周三次。但这是一种真正的信仰。这不仅仅是名义上的基督教，而是在早上6点的早餐桌上的祈祷。他参与了很多其他的教会活动。所以我长大了，一直认为生活就是这样的。这就是，这就是我们。这就是事实。而我，我父母开了一家基督教书店。所以我在六岁的时候开始在基督教书店工作，向人们出售关于耶稣的书，并在《圣经》上盖上名字。 And so I just kind of grew up where it was just in the water, you know? And like everybody, there came a time when I wrestled with, is this my own faith? Is this, my parents faith. And I kind of came to the conclusion that it was my own faith. And so I started into ministry when I was in college. And as soon as I got out of college, I went into full time ministry. And I was a couple of years into full time ministry, when a friend of mine who was a pastor said clearly, have you ever read the whole Bible? And I was like, Yeah, I’m sure I’ve pieced it together over time, because of everything I just told you about how I had been in church, my whole life. I’ve been selling Bibles, all these things. And, you know, a one is a vacation Bible school. And he said, I would encourage you to start today and read it all. You can read the whole thing in 12 minutes today in a year. And Mark, I didn’t want to, like I was just, I just didn’t want to I had read several parts of the Bible that I found particularly boring. I’d read several parts of the Bible that I found particularly confusing. And I was like, I’m good to just sort of like, just hit the main points. I know the most, the most important part. So let’s just leave that other stuff to the pros. Why don’t we and but I was convicted about why am I in full time ministry. Why am I giving my life to this if I don’t want to read this book? And so I and also full disclosure. I had a crush on that pastor, and so I just thought he was single. He’s married now, but I decided I would do it because he wanted me.

马克·斯莱特04:59

我想，动机可以是很多正确的动机。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石05:03

这会给他留下深刻印象。它还提供了一路上我的问题的答案，我认为这将是，我知道这将有助于解决很多让我困惑的部分。所以我开始阅读，大约每周一次，我有很多问题要问他。他开始帮助我以一种前所未有的方式理解圣经。但当我在一年内读完圣经，第一次，我按时间顺序阅读，这对我很有帮助，而不是按照它的排列顺序。但是按照故事发生的顺序。当我第一次读完的时候，我不喜欢上帝，我不喜欢。我仍然相信这是真的。我想，这仍然是真的。我就是不喜欢他。

马克·斯莱特05:48

好吧，那么

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石05:49

我当时真的很为难，因为我是全职的牧师，我真的没有其他技能，我该做什么。这就是

马克·斯莱特05:56

是的，这让我想起CS Lewis说过的话，你知道，我不是担心这不是真的。我担心这是真的。这就是全部。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石06:07

是的,是的。比如，我该怎么对待一个我不喜欢的真实的上帝?我告诉那个牧师朋友，我说，你知道，我不知道我要做什么。我会成为一名咖啡师吗?我该怎么办?因为他有机会看到我读圣经的视角，所以第一次，我向他提出了我的问题，我所有的挫折，感受到了我的困惑。他知道我是怎么读的。所以他说，我完全有另一个挑战给你。我要你再读一遍。这一次，停止寻找自己，开始寻找上帝。 What does he love? What does he hate what motivates him to do what he does? And so Mark, I was halfway through the Old Testament the second time and I was smitten, I was in not with the pastor, but with the Lord like it just the same book, a totally different lens that changed everything for me. And so I was discovering aspects of God, I’d been reading the Bible, like it was about me, I’ve been reading it like it was a to do list or I’ve been treating it like this pharmacy where I would go when I need some hope. I need some encouragement, like, it was not relational, it was self serving, it was very isolated to just me. And so it just transformed everything. And I really have continued this journey of reading through the Bible, just back to back sometimes once a year, sometimes twice a year, and just still learning new stuff about God along the way, still looking for him on every page in every story and every line and finding his character to be delightful and beautiful. And I just want to help as many people as I can be able to read Scripture that way. Because I know there are a lot of us who have grown up in Christian environments, or who for us, it’s just sort of in the water like that, who haven’t yet been given the lens to see who God really is, and to experience the joy that comes from knowing him like that.

马克·斯莱特07:59

我喜欢你表达的方式。我在你的书面证词中也看到了这一点你从对上帝的二手知识，变成了你个人的东西，尤其是福音派基督徒，他们中的很多人是我们的听众，我们经常说，嘿，这不是一种宗教，这是一种关系。老实说，我得说，即使是最近几天，在礼拜中，在一些教学环境中，我们真正想说的是什么?当我们说这是关系，而不是宗教。我想到的一部分是，好吧，关系可以从宗教的常规中发展出来。它可以和set有一些相同的平行结构。但是你刚才提到的整个想法，再一次，把它读起来就好像你在寻找上帝，上帝爱什么，上帝恨什么，上帝的全部，上帝是什么样子，这才是真正的意思。这是你的爱好，对吧，从某种程度上来说，把圣经当成恋爱日记来读，对吧?是的，非常喜欢。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石09:07

我认为，上帝让我们了解他，这是一件很美好的事情。他在告诉我们他是谁。然而，当我第一次通读时，我不会发现所有的东西。就像我一直在我永远不会厌倦他是谁。我从不会对经文感到厌烦，因为总有新的东西要学。所以如果它只是一个实际的东西，如果它只是一个复选框，那么它就是一个1，完成了。我们不需要它。但是因为它是关系的，它是每天的面包。如果这种情况不断出现，那就不是。好吧。 We’re married now. I’ll never see you again. It’s I want to talk to you every day. And I just love that I get to keep getting to know him better and better all the time. There’s more joy to be found in it.

马克·斯莱特09:59

现在。这是一个非常非常深刻的见解，告诉你应该如何阅读圣经。我记得作为一个年轻的基督徒，我的牧师，我17岁开始信仰。我的牧师在我早期的基督教之旅中说，看，当涉及到读圣经时，你读圣经并不重要，重要的是让圣经通过你，让它成为一种关系体验。没有，没有，你在天堂是不会得分的。因为你说，我读过圣经，或者我读过很多遍圣经，对吧?但不是这样的。那是宗教用语。这不是恋爱对话。但这是一个很好的谈论方式。 And, and like you said, so when it comes, you know, you get into a lot of conversations with people. And that whole idea, have you read the whole Bible? And many people just are taken aback by just even the thought, hey, that’s a really big, hard, old, confusing book. And many people are really surprised to find out that, like you said, 1215 16 minutes a day, you can actually read through the whole Bible in a year. Is that Is that still astounding? People in your Oh, for

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石11:12

当然，当然。我应该，我应该让大家知道，如果你阅读速度慢。比如，假设你的阅读速度是你认识的人的两倍，你会感觉到。

马克·斯莱特11:29

我是，我被测试为

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石11:34

好。我喜欢这一点是因为我们生活在世界历史上最经典，技术饱和，先进，技术先进的社会，我们有机会接触到可以读给我们听的人。这不是作弊。听这个播客的人，你们是喜欢从听觉上接受事物的人。你可能是一个听觉学习者。所以用圣经软件读给你听并不是作弊。你可以选择不同的版本，可以选择不同的口音。如果你想让一个英国人读给你听，这是可能的，你知道，有很多方法可以让你用耳朵读圣经。是的，而且

马克·斯莱特12:14

我记得，我记得人们，这是1000多年来大多数人实际接触的方式。是的,当然。是的，就像这个，这个不仅仅是一本圣经，而是多本圣经的想法，你知道，在你的书架上，是最近才有的经历。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石12:29

我是说，在古腾堡发明印刷机之前在人们买得起圣经之前在人们能够阅读之前。所以保罗写了一封信，被送到一个教会，一个人读给其他人听。他们只是用耳朵听到的。所以这不是作弊。这可能是你最好的学习方式。这就是我喜欢每天12分钟阅读圣经应用程序一年计划的平均速度。所以这是完全可以实现的。这是我们大多数人最喜欢的节目的广告时间。你可以在洗澡的时候做，也可以在上下班的路上做，或者在送孩子上学的路上做。倾听不是作弊。

马克·斯莱特13:14

对吧?然后，你知道，我喜欢这个主意。我们希望你能多谈谈按时间顺序阅读圣经的想法。你正在读的这个想法，你正在读最伟大的爱情故事，有些人会这么说，我认为这是一个很好的说法，你正在读最伟大的爱情故事。当我做牧师的时候，我鼓励过教会里的人。通过这个播客，我在听取了不同的人的意见后想出了一个框架。但是你知道，我把它简化为六到七个单词，它们都以同一个字母开头，这有助于我记住，这个故事的框架是创造，紧接着是一场灾难。这就变成了上帝与以色列人订立的一系列契约，引导他指向故事中最关键的部分，那就是基督。我们可以用很多不同的词来深入挖掘，但就是我们在福音书中看到的基督的整个故事，它引导我们进入教会的时代，并引导我们进入新创造中王国的时代。所以我试着把这个故事框定下来，你知道，那五六个字帮助我思考，好吧，这是一个有很多章节的故事。 But how did how did you come to decide to read the Bible chronologically, and why is that important?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石14:36

对我来说，我向那位牧师表达的其中一件事是，我只是有些地方我不明白。我想，这些人是谁?就像，我读到的，就像，为什么他们为什么这些人一直试图杀死以色列人，一次又一次?为什么以色列人总是一次又一次地把事情搞砸，我发现他们的做法和我们一样。但发生的一些事情是，我从一个不同的人通过不同的视角读到了同样的故事。所以我就想，我以为这已经发生了。我很困惑。那是因为我一本书一本书地读，就像我一样，每当我读的时候，我不知道圣经在这些章节中更像是一个图书馆，而不是按时间顺序排列的。所以他说，如果你按时间顺序读，你就会得到故事情节的流程。对我来说，马克，有几个重要的原因。 We’re people have story, we love story, we’re compelled by story. And so we don’t treat anything else in our lives that we’re trying to engage with in the way that we treat the Bible a lot of times, like, I don’t show up at a movie theater halfway through the movie and drop down for five minutes and expect to understand the plot. And I certainly don’t expect to fall in love with the main character, you know. So I realized that consuming it beginning to end in the way that it actually happened, helped me understand God’s motivations behind a lot of things. It helped me understand that if he if I am reading a part of the Scripture, where he’s like, coming in and wiping some people out, and I’m just opening up my Bible, and that’s what I happen to open to that day. And I’m like, Okay, God, direct my eyes to what you want me to read, and I just dropped down on that, I have no context for what he’s doing there. And context is so important, because it tells us a little bit about the why. It’s not just telling us what’s happening, but it’s telling us why it’s happening. And so if I see that God tells his people don’t do this thing, if you do this thing, here’s what I’m gonna have to do. And I don’t want to do that thing. So please don’t do this thing. And then they do it. And he’s patient, and they do it. And he’s patient, and they do it. He’s patient. And finally, he’s like, oh, man, I’ve told you so many times, please don’t do this, here’s what I’m gonna have to do, then we see that he has extended patients to them. But he’s also delivered on what he said he was going to do. And so we we see more of what’s happening. It gives us more context for God’s character. And I think also, one thing that’s really beautiful, that’s just a fun bonus for me is, I never really had a true appreciation for the Psalms until I read them in light of what they were written in response to. So when you read about the atrocities that David committed against Uriah and Bathsheba, and then you go and read the psalm of repentance that he wrote, or when you see he’s, he’s like, living in the wilderness while Saul is pursuing him. And he is praising God in the midst of all this, despite the fact that it feels like his life is hanging by a thread. To see those things in the context of what’s actually happening in his reality. It’s just, it gives so much more life to the Psalms, in my opinion. It’s

马克·斯莱特17:43

就像把每一部好电影都放进去，对，我们在奥斯卡颁奖典礼之后录制这个。你知道，奥斯卡奖是颁给电影配乐的，对吧?用诗篇作为诗歌配乐来读圣经。完全说得通。对吧?每个伟大的故事都有配乐作为支撑。这会让你继续前进。对吧?是的。这是一个很好的思考方式。 So so how does all of that become what we now know, as the Bible recap as the group out? How do we get from you just learning to engage the Bible in this relational way? How does it turn into this next thing, right?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石18:27

所以当我第一次开始读圣经的时候，我创建了一个叫做D组的东西，我找到了所有我想深入研究的东西，因为我把圣经阅读和圣经研究区分开来。所以我通读圣经，但我发现我想，我想了解更多关于三位一体的知识。我想更多地了解这本书，或者类似的东西，比如我想深入研究的东西。所以我开始了一天的门徒训练小组，只有我和九个女大学生在一个客厅里。我也以为会一直是这样。我从没想过会有这么大的发展。除此之外，我从未有过别的抱负。但我们只会花12周的时间深入研究一个主题或一本书。它是如此丰富。一直以来，我都在告诉这些女孩，嘿，我每年都要通读圣经，可以和我一起读圣经，就像我知道我们在这里学习圣经一样，但我们一起读吧。 And people would start but they would kind of taper off and you know, Exodus numbers like a lot of us do, every year. I like Leviticus for sure. I chose that I was a Genesis scholar, because I’ve read Genesis so many times, but nothing beyond that. And because I’ve certainly tried and failed many times before that Pastor challenged me to read the Bible, and which is one reason why I didn’t want to try again. But a few years into having tried that, there was a friend of mine who’s like, I really want to redo the Bible. Like I really want to do it and I’ve tried and failed and I said, you know, we go on walks all the time. Like what if, once a week we download what you’ve Read and you asked me questions. And we sort of talked through it while we’re on one of our walks. And that’s what the pastor had done for me. And she was the first person who ever, ever walked through the bible with whoever successfully read through it. After all those years of me being like, let’s do this people. And so I had this D group member who was studying the Bible with me, who then read through the Bible with me. And when she was approaching the the New Testament, which is about nine months into the reading plan, of a year long reading plan, she said, I cannot believe I’m about to finish the Old Testament, this is unbelievable, I never would have been able to do it, if you hadn’t walked me through it. And something clicked in my brain. That’s the only reason I was able to finish it. That’s the only reason she was able to finish it. It’s, it was more like a comprehension gap. It wasn’t time it wasn’t necessarily desire, because desire can be ignited by that comprehension. And so I thought, how can I do this for the rest of the people in the group? How can I do something that all these because at that point, the group was I think about 200, groups on like, six continents, and it just kept growing, which praise God that people wanted to study the Bible. But I wanted to help those people read the Bible, too. So I decided to make a podcast to help walk D group members through the Bible. And my prayer was that 300 people would read through the Bible with me. And I anticipated that most of those people would be digard members. And I had no idea that it would reach such a broad audience, and appeal to so many different people and help. Just loads of people read through the Bible not just once, but hopefully every year for the rest of their lives. And so that’s sort of the origin story of how the Bible recap came to exist. And we still I still have both of those. Those ministries are still thriving, the group continues to grow where we studied the Bible, and the Bible recap continues to grow where we read the Bible.

马克·斯莱特21:47

是啊，太棒了。所以只是社区的力量和一些爱，温柔的责任去尝试，你知道，人们，人们，你知道，我们知道这总是在第一年出现在我们身上当涉及到锻炼项目时，对吧，找个人来做。哦,意大利。是的。而且，你知道，人们可能听过其他人，你知道，像我这样的牧师说，你知道，圣经阅读和圣经研究的区别在于，当你来圣经研究时，你带着问题来，你带着笔来写下一些答案和一些更多的问题。但是你知道，谁，什么，什么时候，在哪里，为什么我们在高中时在英语课上学的那些基本问题?是的。这些就是你来查经时想要问的问题吗?你能给我们一点关于D组的见解关于D组是如何工作的吗?你知道，如果有这样的东西，一般的格式是什么? And and if they, if somebody was listening to this, and they wanted to get into that, as well as reading the Bible along with you, where would they go? How would they do that?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石22:50

我们有一个网站，我的D group。org。D组里没有破折号，只有D group。org。D代表门徒训练。我不知道我说过没有。但我们有几种不同的方式可以让人们与团体联系，我们喜欢与教会合作。所以很多教堂都有社区团体的一面，就像人们想要聚在一起生活。或者他们想谈论周日的布道。但很多教会都无法配备足够的人员来进行一次大规模的深入研究。所以我们喜欢说，让我们成为你家庭团体的选择之一，我们很乐意与你的教会建立联系，以这种方式为你的教会服务。而且对教堂是免费的。 Or people can join an online D group. So we have lots of people who do that. But then we also have D groups that just meet in homes. And they’re made up of people sometimes from various different churches. And we have gender specific D groups at this point. But we’re also working to expand to co Ed married D groups within our church partnerships. But it’s a two hour format every week. It’s a 12 week study. And so within that 12 week study, we we take on a couple different challenges that are I just I think that there are things that I want to do as a Christian that I’m never going to do on my own without that accountability that you mentioned. So like, I want to memorize scripture. But if I don’t have to say it out loud to someone else, I’m probably not going to keep up with it. Like I want to, I want to put into practice the things I’m learning in the Word. But sometimes it’s hard to isolate, like how to respond to a specific thing that we’ve studied. And I want to do some of these spiritual disciplines like daily Bible reading and things like that. And so, you know, for even for people who don’t do the Bible recap, we still want them to be in the Bible daily. So with D group, we add those things into the study. So we memorize a chunk of Scripture every section, and like we memorize cumulatively, and so and you have to say it to somebody out loud every week. And we also have prayer partners. So every every week, you’re meeting with the same prayer partner for half of the study. You meet with the same person for six weeks, and you confess sin and and you pray for them. And for some people, that’s terrifying. They’ve never prayed out loud. But when you’re praying out loud to in front of just one person, who just confess their sin to You, it really helps like, lower the bar of your nervousness quite a bit. And so we’re helping people grow in the spiritual disciplines. And so every week we’re doing these things. We have daily Bible reading, we have prayer time, we have scripture memorization. And we have our like, where we go over the study. And then we have our practical response to what we learned that week, we call it the weekly challenge. So there are all these elements of spiritual discipline folded in here, and we do them within the context of community. And I have found so much rich, the richest relationships of my life have been built in these spaces, with people who are are totally different from me sometimes, like totally different lives. They’re not the people that I would choose to hang out with on a Friday night sometimes. But man, they know me to my core, they pray for me, they fight for me, they challenge me. And it’s just, it’s just incredible.

马克·斯莱特26:05

嗯，太棒了。再问几个问题，确保大家理解。所以他们去了你的网站，我的D group。org。他们想要进入，已经有了一个促进者领导。我假设这个人受过一些训练。是的。哦，是的，有点，

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石26:25

我们所做的。我们为我们的领导者进行领导者培训。我们有，如果有人想在一个领域亲自参加，D组，而在他们的领域没有，他们可以训练成为一个领导者，他们不需要主要是他们的促进者。我们提供他们需要的一切。他们不需要知道整本圣经，他们不需要知道所有的答案。所以我们会很乐意训练他们，每周给他们提供所需的一切。

马克·斯莱特26:53

是的，我不想，我不想让别人有上网报名的想法。对了，谢谢你报名参加，你可以参加下一个小组。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石27:01

我们会很客气地请求你，如果你愿意的话。我们不会让你这么做。我们希望我们希望你能来。所以

马克·斯莱特27:06

是的，可能会问你，但我们肯定会帮助你成为一个成功的领导者，如果你决定要成为一个行动者，对吧。是的。然后然后我记得我听你说过每次每次疗程是12周。然后你休息一下，开始另一个疗程，这就是可能的方式

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石27:20

研究为期12周。每次研究有六周的时间。我们这样做的原因是，我们不会在中间休息，我们只是继续努力。我们在夏天也不休息。所以当他们的教会在夏天休息时，我们有很多人加入我们。但是我们每六周休息一次的原因是因为我们要求人们在D组呆上六周，我们要求他们在里面呆那么长时间。如果有人想加入，比如说有人现在就跳到网站上，说我想加入，但是我们正在进行一个12周的研究，我们只进行了两周，要等近三个月才能加入。我们不希望那样。所以我们安排了六周的休息时间，也就是六周的承诺。如果你学习到一半就开始了，你要么可以赶上进度，要么可以重新开始，然后继续学习。

马克·斯莱特28:14

是的,太棒了。太好了。每项研究都有一个标题。有主题吗?是的，12周?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石28:21

是的，我们即将开始一项研究不要太兴奋。《申命记》。

马克·斯莱特28:28

我会很兴奋，因为我对此有所了解。是的。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石28:30

我们试着把圣经的一卷书和一个话题交替进行。所以我说的话题，并不是指如何成为一个优雅的女人。我是说，就像三位一体，或者使徒信经，或者类似的东西。所以它本身并不是一个松散的研究，但这一年剩下的时间是申命记，葡萄的纪律，和希伯来书，这就是2023年剩下的时间里发生的事情。到2024年，我们的计划是用一整年的时间来做福音。我们有12周的马太福音，12周的马可福音，12周的约翰福音，然后看看福音书中，关于耶稣是谁的四个主要视角。所以耶稣是国王，耶稣是仆人，耶稣是人，耶稣是上帝，我对此很兴奋。

马克·斯莱特29:29

是啊，那真是太好了。所以我们想确定的另一件事是我们花了一些时间谈论你对以色列的爱和你对以色列的参与。这种似乎有三个步骤的计划,这是阅读圣经来了解和爱上帝,得到一组来了解更多关于他和其他人,然后实际上是耶稣是上帝,他做了很多的工作,仍然是在工作今天,我有幸在以色列的几次,包括两次在过去的六个月,这是一种吹我的脑海里。但我第一次去那里，大约是10年前，我的印象是那首小孩子的歌，他把整个世界都掌握在他的手中。但他的食指在一个叫以色列的小地方。我喜欢这样。我的感觉是，嘿，上帝的指纹无处不在。但是他的食指就在这个小国家上，这个国家在理解上一直在挑战我们所有人，真的，所以我注意到在你的一些背景资料中你通过你的父亲开始意识到并爱上了以色列，告诉我们这部分。还有，还有其他的，你想为以色列对你的意义设定一个背景。是的,

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石30:54

我爸爸，我爸爸还活着。在我出生前，他曾带领旅行团游览以色列。我没能和他一起去。但他只是他几乎每天都会提到以色列。所以我也是在水里长大的。所以在2012年，我当时的教会，决定第一次去以色列。马克，我曾经是崇拜队的一员。所以我早上在那里，当他们播放公告的时候。我没有，我没有听说过这件事。所以我看到了公告，在预演的时候，我离开了服务，或者至少在预演的时候离开了礼堂，去了大厅，因为那里有电脑，你可以在那里注册。 I was I like vaulted out of my out of my position to go. I’m calling my parents, but like I just signed up for Israel. And I was so excited. And even with all the stories that my dad told, I was so blown away when I got there, because every image that I had of Israel in my mind, and and everything that I had heard my dad talk about, I pictured Israel as sepia toned, I pictured it as Justice Brown, its ruins its sand. And I was blown away. I was like, I got there. And I’m like, it’s it’s on the Mediterranean. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s got the same climate as Italy and Greece, and it’s green and lush and vibrant. And the food’s amazing. And it was beautiful. I was there in early May. And so it was not the heat of summer. Everything’s in bloom. And I just fell in love with it. And I remember everybody kept saying, like, the brochures that they gave us said once in a lifetime trip. And I I remember coming home and looking at that brochure and being like, God, if I only get to go there, once in a lifetime, I need you to kill me now. Like I can not go the rest of my life and not go back there. And so my dad, I told him about that. And he was like, you know, I can sort of help you figure out how to lead trips. And if you go and you go take a few trips to learn. And so I went on to pilgrimage trips to learn and then to geopolitical trips to learn. So I wanted to learn not only the biblical history, but I wanted to learn the political climate as well. And because that was very, I knew nothing about that. And there’s still so much to learn. Yeah, so I took those four trips to sort of learn about Israel and did things like volunteered in hospitals and things like that got to know a lot of the locals and just I just I think that I leave in a few weeks to go back again and I think it will be my 19th trip and I What’s your favorite place there mark like I love it so much but I want to hear what your favorite places

马克·斯莱特33:49

我最喜欢我妻子最喜欢的地方是在加利利海北端的迦百农山上布道的地方她喜欢坐在那里想象听到耶稣说话的情景。我们都喜欢写关于加利利海的故事，但可能是我最喜欢的地方之一上次我们去了科拉辛，这是我第一次去科拉辛，科拉辛是独一无二的。以色列到处都是古老的犹太教堂的遗迹，你知道，这个神奇的小国家基本上和新泽西州一样大，就像你说的，我对这里的气候感到震惊，我想我大部分时间都会在沙漠里闲逛，就在这个神奇的城市耶路撒冷在它的中心，但你知道，它是沿海的。就像你说的，那是地中海，然后，你知道，开车很短的时间，你就会感受到北部几乎是雨林的感觉。而且，你知道，是的，我站在与叙利亚的边界上，我的导游告诉我，嘿，走几百英尺，你知道，走出他们的院子，进入交易，你可能会被逮捕，如果没有被枪杀。走出去，好吗?然后，你知道，向南开几个小时的车。是的，你是在沙漠里，你是在地球上最低的地方死海，这是惊人的，美丽的，令人震惊的，在这里，一切都是独一无二的。所有这一切都发生了，但无论如何，它位于加利利海的北部。这里有一个深色的玄武岩犹太教堂。 And this is one of those places, when you’re in Israel. A lot of times when you’re in Israel, you’re like, well, we don’t know if it happened here. We just know somebody built something to commemorate an event, right? In the Bible or in history. There’s other places where we’re like, well, it was close to here. But we don’t know exactly where it might have been, you know, a mile this way or a mile that way, but it was somewhere very close. And then there are these places where like this is this is where this happened, you know, up in the north, right? There’s this place where, Hey, there’s this thing called the layup gate, Abraham walked through this gate, okay. And then at cuisine, you’re standing there, and you’re like Jesus was in this room. Not in a room like this not in a room near this. Jesus was in this room. And that is just so powerful to think that you’re standing on stones walking on steps, that Jesus and the apostles actually were they’re truly, I mean, there’s so you know, what I tell people about Israel is, is you could turn over any rock, and there’s amazing history of some kind, most of it biblical right there. Right. And so they have to be selective about what they do. So much there. So it’s between it’s really for me, it’s between Cora zine and the recently discovered either the city of Magdala, the home of Mary Mack was just about to ask me what I was. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the place that they have just announced that they’re going to restore, which is the the Pool of Siloam, where the blind man of John nine gets healed at the pool of Siloam. And God just kind of stuck that story in my brain about six or eight months ago, and it’s still there. And right now, if you go there, the Pool of Siloam is basically a little more than a drainage ditch. But they’re going to restore what was in its day, an acre sized bathing pool. And it just, it just amazes me just astounds me, though, so it’s hard for me to choose what my favorite place right now. Now, the question is turned on you Tara Lee, what’s your favorite place?

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石37:53

和你一样，我也有最喜欢的地方。对于没去过以色列的听众，西罗亚池在耶路撒冷。所以马可记载的地方靠近加利利海，在耶路撒冷。一个地方是乡村，一个地方是城市，这两个地方我都有我最喜欢的地方。我最喜欢的地方是加利利地区的乡村，离八福山和迦百农很近你妻子最喜欢的地方。这一小块地方叫做“基督之门”，意思是“基督的桌子”。它位于加利利海的海岸线上。他们说海水和海岸线两千年来都没有改变。这片区域是该地区唯一的天然港口位于西北加利利海地区。所以渔民们会在那里挖到他们的船。 And so that would have been where Jesus called His disciples and where he met them on the shoreline after his resurrection. And I just love it. It’s it’s not there are not souvenir tents set up there. It’s just this, this little rocky beach line, and you can walk them into the water and there’s a little chapel there. And the chapel is built around this big, wide, flat rock that they believe may have been the table of Christ, meaning the space where when he met the disciples after His resurrection, and they had been out fishing all night, and they hadn’t caught anything and they come to shore after he’s told him how to catch some fish. He’s it says that he already had some fish laid out for them for breakfast. And so they’re like, Hey, we don’t know for sure. But maybe maybe this big wide flat rock is where he would have laid out those fish because I don’t know if you have been camping or not mark but when I go camping and I’m looking for places to sit out my provisions, I’m looking for like a stump or a rock or something to put things out. So this big, wide, flat rock kind of serves as A table there on the on the shoreline. So I love that little spot in the Galilee. And in Jerusalem I love I love the Garden Tomb, I just think it is such a peaceful place. And I know it’s contests like there are different theories on where Jesus died and was resurrected and buried. There are different theories on that based on based on often what faith tradition you you belong to. But there’s three, there’s one that typically that Protestants believe is the right spot and one that typically the Catholics believe is the right spot. And but the regardless of what you believe, check out the Garden Tomb. There’s a Catholic priest who believes it’s not the Garden Tomb. And he says, if it’s not the garden team, if that’s not the place where Jesus died, it should be because it the way that the peace that it communicates in their space is just, it’s hard to find that in a bustling city. And they’re just on the outskirts of Jerusalem, just outside the city gates. Is this beautiful little garden? And an empty tomb?

马克·斯莱特41:07

是的。是那个吗?那是你第一次旅行时最美好的记忆吗?或者，你是否还有另一段难忘的回忆?因为以色列就是这么做的。它会以我的方式留在你身边。Mike Fanning博士，他是圣经考古学的博士，他在耶路撒冷学习期间至少住了两年。他最近说，他说，你知道吗，我可以在牧师布道五分钟内判断他是否去过以色列，哦，哇。他说，我可以，我五分钟就能看出来，因为这已经深深地融入了迈克的内心，如果

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石41:49

这说得通。你知道的,

马克·斯莱特41:52

是否有一个早期的故事或者是一些在形成过程中留下深刻印象的东西，

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石41:59

你知道，我想，从我的第一次旅行开始，花园队对我来说真的是一个难忘的地方。我去的次数越多，它就越深入我的灵魂和我的存在，我有一本关于以色列的书将于下个月出版。就像一本豪华的咖啡桌书里面有漂亮的照片。这真是太棒了。但我们写这本书的方式。2021年5月，当这个国家还很接近游客的时候，我们带着我的摄影师和我去了五个星期，我们获得了工作签证。我认为，当时能够持工作签证进入美国的人非常有限，而我们设法进入了美国。这就意味着，每次我去的时候，我看到的所有景点都挤满了游客，却空无一人。其中一些我们需要见一些特别的人才能进入，因为它还没有对任何人开放。但是我们在那里的时候花园墓一直是开放的。 And but just nobody was visiting it. And so we went in, and it was just this quiet, birds chirping, no other people in the whole place. And I get to go in and sit and have my quiet time in the Garden Tomb and journal in the tomb. And I was like this is i i cannot imagine that this is happening right now. i This is inconceivable to me because I’m so used to being in that tomb with six or seven other people who were there at a time. And so the Lord just, it just keeps getting deeper into who I am, like Israel is, feels like my second home now. And I just love it so much. I love to watch other people fall in love with it. Like for them to be astonished at how beautiful it is and how great the food is now great the people are. I love that.

马克·斯莱特43:47

就像我告诉人们的那样，这不是度假，你可以把它当作度假来对待。你可以以学生或游客的身份接近它。但最好的方式是在一开始就像朝圣者一样。是的。你刚才说的有趣之处在于一个小游戏，当你在以色列旅游时，你的导游会试图比其他旅行团更聪明，这样你就可以早点到达一个地方，或者你可以走在人群前面，多花一点时间。你知道，我记得大约10年前我和妻子第一次去那里，导游说，好吧，我们要提前20分钟离开酒店，因为我们要去橄榄山。第一，当太阳升起的时候，在其他人到达之前。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石44:34

这就是那种我又爱又恨的导游，因为我喜欢早早发力。但那是那是最好的。这太棒了，你得你得让事情发生。

马克·斯莱特44:46

是的，所以你知道，似乎每次我去的时候，都会有某种经历对我的成长产生影响。我第一次去那里，是在南边的台阶上，在那里礼拜者会进入帐篷区，他们会背诵《升天诗篇》，圣经在《诗篇》第120篇中提到过。跟随并想象它们，这些步骤的设计是为了让你在敬拜时放慢脚步并反思。最后一次，我和我们的创始人吉姆·丹尼森(Jim Dennison)交谈，他已经来过很多次了，我们站在客西马尼园。他说，我想让你们看看东门，现在东门已经被其他团体用石头砌起来了，他们不希望上帝的预言通过。他说，耶稣会听到士兵和犹大从那扇门下来，看着他们拿着火把穿过橄榄园，进入客西马尼园，他有足够的时间离开，足够的时间离开。他说，他站在这里听着，看着，你永远不应该怀疑上帝是否爱你，他可以很容易地逃跑。如果他站在那里，

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石46:03

当然，对于那些没去过以色列的人来说，当你站在约塞米蒂公园的花园里，看着东门，它就在山谷的另一边。而你呢，他可能只是转身往相反的方向跑，然后逃到犹太的荒野里，他们永远也找不到他。但他还是留下来了。当你能够去到那里，看到这些空间的邻近，它改变了一切，我从来不想，这总是很难的标记，因为我不知道你，但我努力，因为我想传达去那里是多么不可思议。但我从来不想让那些没有去过那里或不能去那里的人认为他们的信仰更差，与上帝的关系更差，或者他们不去那里就无法达到某种程度。所以我总是这样描述，我是单身，我未婚，从未结过婚。但如果我遇到一个人并爱上他，那很好，那是我们都希望的。但当我去见他的家人时，并不一定会让我更爱他。但它确实帮助我建立了很多联系，这对理解和认识他非常有帮助。所以你得到了，你得到了，你就像，哦，这就是，这就是那句话的由来。 And this is what that means. And now I understand a little bit better. And it it just adds a new dimension to things. But it doesn’t mean that anybody who who can’t go for whatever reason or who hasn’t been, it doesn’t mean that they have a lesser relationship with the Lord.

马克·斯莱特47:34

带着你的身份证走得更远，如果如果这是一种情况，你就开始了一段浪漫的关系。那个人的家庭因为地理原因或者因为邪恶势力而无法联系到，然后你会说，给我看一张你父亲和你家人的照片，这就是为什么你的书和其他资源如此强大的原因。伟德国际手机移动版很多关于以色列和圣地的事情都可以通过YouTube在网上看到。上次我们在那里的时候，有一个完整的视频是关于耶稣时代圣殿建筑群的样子，你知道，3d的，高质量的图像，你可以你可以在你的电脑上看到并想象你在以色列甚至无法体验到的地方，因为它不存在。是的，完全正确。所以。所以科技让很多东西得以重现。你知道，我相信你的书会很出色，就像我说的，不仅能从视觉上看到它，而且在评论中也有一些你自己的收集和经验，对于那些从来没有一点点。对不起。对，对于那些你见过的人那些从未去过或者不能去过的人，

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石48:53

这些图片不仅会给你视觉上的感受，我们还在里面放了30个灵修场所，它们与我们旅行中要去的地方相邻。所以在这本漂亮的咖啡桌照片集里，有一点像以色列的迷你之旅。

马克·斯莱特49:10

好吧，我不会再耽误你时间了。非常感谢。但我还有最后一个问题，没关系。以色列最喜欢的餐厅?我有一个答案。所以我想知道你会去哪一个。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石49:20

好吧。我有我有两个答案。我有一个在耶路撒冷，一个在我，我愿意有一个直到两点，一个在耶路撒冷，一个在加利利，在加利利。我喜欢玛格达莱娜，这是对的。是的。这就是你的答案吗?

马克·斯莱特49:36

我有烹饪书。是的。这是最后一次。我买了两本烹饪书。一个给我妻子，一个给我女儿。玛格达莱娜棒极了。我从来不知道花椰菜可以这么好吃。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石49:49

这是公平的。这是公平的。在耶路撒冷，我喜欢城市景观，你知道的。我喜欢坐在外面。那里的景色很美。耶路撒冷的。整个城市。

马克·斯莱特50:02

是的。是的。是的。有些食物简直令人惊叹。我在大城市里从来没有感到这么安全过。我晚上出去散步，你知道，晚上11点。我觉得那里比我去过的任何城市都安全，比世界上任何地方都安全，比美国任何地方都安全，是的，有时比达拉斯部分地区更安全。是的。但我是说，我在走路。是的，我在晚上10点走路，感觉很安全。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石50:34

是的，我曾经独自一人在一点钟外出，我现在在耶路撒冷，时间很长。

马克·斯莱特50:38

是的，那是一个非常非常棒的地方。很期待看到你的书，谢谢你，我相信这是很棒的工具。但是谢谢你的谈话。了解你和你的工作是一件很有趣的事情，我们很感激，很感激你能参与到你的工作中来。感谢你为以色列的D小组提供圣经阅读计划，我们很感激所有这些，人们显然被感动了，受到了影响，并因此更接近上帝。行走。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石51:07

非常感谢你，马克。我很感谢你们在这里所做的一切，也感谢所有的听众。我希望能和你们一起通读圣经。

马克·斯莱特51:15

绝对的。我想感谢今天的听众。很明显，如果今天的对话对你有帮助，请给我们打分，评论，推荐，发给你的朋友。在圣经重述和我的D group.ca.org上查看塔拉·李的工作。你也可以在她的个人网站上找到关于她的所有信息。塔拉·李·喀布尔报道。谢谢你Tara Lee。愿上帝保佑你。

Tara-Leigh鹅卵石51:41

谢谢你，马克。愿上帝保佑你。